1 1 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS 2 JEFFERSON TOWNSHIP 3 * * * 4 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5 * * * 6 DATE OF HEARING: Monday, July 21, 2003 Beginning at 7:35 o'clock p.m. 7 8 PLACE OF HEARING: One Business Park Drive Dayton, Ohio 45427 9 10 ZONING APPEALS BOARD: Rob Seiter Sam Dickerson 11 Mellow Bradley 12 * * * 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 1 MR. SEITER: If everyone would rise, 2 we'll call the meeting to order. 3 (Thereupon, the pledge of allegiance 4 was recited.) 5 MR. SEITER: Mellow, would you take 6 the roll call? 7 MS. BRADLEY: Yes. Mrs. Bradley, 8 here. Mr. Seiter? 9 MR. SEITER: Here. 10 MS. BRADLEY: Mr. Dickerson? 11 MR. DICKERSON: Here. 12 MS. BRADLEY: And we have a quorum. 13 MR. SEITER: There's two cases 14 tonight. The first is traditional use for the 15 use of a radar tower on Frytown. Is that 16 applicant or applicant's representative here? 17 MR. ATKIN: Yes. 18 MR. SEITER: Would you care to 19 address the board about the nature of this 20 request? 21 MR. ATKIN: Okay. I'm new to this. 22 What we want to do -- excuse me. I'm Jim Atkin. 23 I'm chief engineer at Channel 2, WDTN, and we 24 have a transmitter facility on Frytown Road where 25 we have a thousand foot tower. We also have a 3 1 450 foot tower. We want to put in a 60 foot 2 tower which will support a weather radar. It 3 will obviously be no obstruction whatsoever. 4 It's 60 feet. This will actually be located in 5 some wooded area behind a current building that's 6 in place, and it poses absolutely no hazards to 7 anybody from any kind of microwave radiation or 8 interference and it's going to be licensed by the 9 FCC. This type of radar is approved by EPA 10 and -- that's about it. I mean, it's just a very 11 small tower that will probably be supported by 12 concrete pylons and have a small eight by ten 13 utility building right next to it with equipment. 14 MR. SEITER: Any questions? 15 MR. DICKERSON: Excuse me. Yeah. 16 Initially, when I first saw your application, 17 based on some experience in the Air Force with 18 air craft radar, I knew there was a minimum safe 19 distance so I checked on-line, and my only 20 question and concern is if that minimum safe 21 distance requirement is met because there are a 22 few homes in this area. 23 MR. ATKIN: Right. 24 MR. DICKERSON: And if the agency 25 that issues you permits has taken that into 4 1 consideration as part of the criteria when they 2 evaluate your request, then fine. 3 MR. ATKIN: Absolutely. Let me 4 state that the tower itself will be 60 feet. Of 5 course, there's a pedestal. Obviously, the dish, 6 like a satellite dish, has to be mounted on a 7 pedestal. The overall light -- the center of 8 where this beam will come out will be over 65 9 feet in the air. It's going to be looking up at 10 one degree minimum. It cannot look down. If 11 you're looking up at that height, at a high place 12 like this is located, this thing will shut down. 13 If it just fell over, everything's going to shut 14 off. 15 Then you get into what they call 16 near field density. There's obviously high 17 powered microwaves. If you get too close to like 18 a microwave oven, there's a possibility of some 19 danger but radar's pulsed so it's not just a 20 continuous amount of RF out there. We're only 21 talking a couple hundred watts probably near 22 field distance. You'd have to be hanging in 23 front of this thing with it not moving for quite 24 a period of time, but there's so many safeties 25 built into this. 5 1 These things are located in every 2 airport, in urban areas. Indianapolis has them 3 right downtown. Columbus has them, almost every 4 city. If there's anything, these things weren't 5 safe, FCC would not allow these things to happen. 6 It's a perfectly safe instrument. FCC would not 7 allow it if there were any hazards to even 8 animals. So it's a perfectly safe device. 9 MR. SEITER: So that's one of the 10 considerations in their permitting process is the 11 safety of it? 12 MR. ATKIN: Yeah. 13 MR. SEITER: The dish rotates on 14 there? 15 MR. ATKIN: Yes. 16 MR. SEITER: Is this similar to the 17 one on -- 18 MR. ATKIN: There's one off of 19 Gettysburg. Channel 7 has one. Same thing 20 exactly. 21 MR. SEITER: We missed you guys last 22 month, but in those drawings I think it showed, 23 from you just saying this, I missed it, it showed 24 the position of this tower relative to the 25 existing towers. 6 1 MR. ATKIN: Yes. 2 MR. SEITER: Yeah, and I missed the 3 difference in height. Those are big, tall 4 towers. 5 MR. ATKIN: One's a thousand and ten 6 feet, the other, 450 feet approximately. This is 7 60 feet. 8 MR. SEITER: Isn't there one on -- 9 MR. ATKIN: On Frytown. 10 MR. SEITER: And as you turn the 11 corner? 12 MR. ATKIN: Right. 13 MR. SEITER: This is only 60 feet? 14 MR. ATKIN: It's going to shoot 15 right on the top. Plus, they're not in the near 16 field range anyway. They wouldn't be in the near 17 field range for something a hundred times this 18 strong. This is way up. It's 60 feet and 19 shooting up. One degree doesn't sound like a 20 lot. Up quite a bit, 150 feet probably, plus 21 it's turning. Say if a guy was ballooning, he'd 22 probably get caught in the guy wires first from 23 the big tower. It still wouldn't bother him. 24 The pulses are in so short duration. We're 25 talking a million pulses. 7 1 MR. SEITER: My questions was 2 related to the danger of the towers falling. I 3 kind of wonder how that got in years ago. That's 4 a huge tower. 5 MR. ATKIN: It wouldn't bother -- it 6 wouldn't fall anyway. It wouldn't do anything. 7 Actually, we are designing this -- overdesigning 8 it. We're taking into consideration it's a 60 9 foot tower with a 12 foot radon. So we're taking 10 in -- obviously, wind loading is a hazardous 11 thing to a tower. We're actually building this 12 with the specs of a 70 foot tower. We're 13 actually doing 60 feet and 12 feet. 14 MR. WILLIAMS: This is for doppler 15 or something? 16 MR. ATKIN: Exactly. It's weather 17 radar. We don't want to be the only guys in town 18 that don't have it. 19 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, you still won't 20 be, will you? 21 MR. ATKIN: I hope we get it. 22 MR. WILLIAMS: I think there's 23 another station that doesn't have it. 24 MR. ATKIN: Well, we've got to 25 compete with the big guys. 8 1 MR. SEITER: Have you got any other 2 questions? 3 MS. BRADLEY: I don't. 4 MR. DICKERSON: That's the only 5 thing I can think of. 6 MR. SEITER: I move we approve the 7 applicant's request for this use. 8 MS. BRADLEY: Second. 9 MR. SEITER: I'm sorry. 10 MS. SMITH: I have a question. My 11 name is Sylvia Smith, and I am the one homeowner 12 there. You're surrounding me. 13 MR. ATKIN: I know exactly -- I know 14 where you are. 15 MS. SMITH: So, naturally, I'm very 16 concerned. You can understand. 17 MR. ATKIN: I understand exactly. 18 MS. SMITH: You can assure me. I've 19 been assured the towers wouldn't fall on me and 20 if it would, it would hit the back of my house. 21 MR. ATKIN: They're not going to 22 fall on you. 23 MR. SEITER: You're the house on -- 24 MS. SMITH: Yeah. We take care -- 25 MR. ATKIN: The tower's not going to 9 1 fall on you. There's no way. 2 MS. SMITH: I understand the way 3 it's engineered. I'm concerned about the poles 4 and being -- 5 MR. SEITER: Was your question 6 answered satisfactorily? 7 MS. SMITH: Well, it does concern 8 me. I can visualize what you're saying. It 9 would be higher, 60 feet. I know where the 10 original tower is. 11 MR. ATKIN: It's going to be -- what 12 we propose if the tower's here (indicating) and 13 you live here (indicating), this is going to be 14 over here. 15 MS. SMITH: It's facing the landfill 16 or what? 17 MR. ATKIN: Yeah. It's on the 18 landfill side. It's going to be even further 19 away. 20 MS. SMITH: But it rotates? 21 MR. ATKIN: Yeah. It rotates and it 22 looks up. It can't possibly do -- I can't make 23 it do this. If it looked right at your house, it 24 wouldn't do anything to you because you're 25 outside the near field. It would do nothing. 10 1 MR. SEITER: Do you want to look at 2 this diagram of it? 3 MS. SMITH: I tried to see the map 4 today and it wasn't available. 5 MR. SEITER: I think getting back 6 that was my concern, too, is this tower is 7 nowhere near -- how tall are the existing towers? 8 MR. ATKIN: 1,010 and -- 9 MR. SEITER: It's nowhere near -- 10 MR. ATKIN: We're going to be on the 11 other side. 12 MS. WILLIAMS: My name is Maddie 13 Williams. I reside at 3730 Frytown in front of 14 where he is supposed to put this supposed 15 something that's conditional -- what is it? 16 MR. ATKIN: He has a picture of it. 17 It's a doppler weather radar. 18 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm Mickey Williams. 19 I reside also at 3730 Frytown Road across from 20 Channel 2's tower there. Doppler radar, isn't 21 that like something Channel 7 has? 22 MR. ATKIN: Exactly. And, 23 basically, it kind of picks up the weather 24 pattern around, things like that. There's radar 25 like in Wilmington and doppler. We're trying to 11 1 put it in because we want to show how fast storm 2 systems are coming in and that's what it allows 3 you to do. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Does it do anything 5 else? 6 MR. ATKIN: I can't say. There may 7 be some guys here from Channel 7, but, I mean, 8 that's just the graphical interference you got 9 with the data as far as this is just a 60 foot 10 tower. It's going to be looking up. Like I say, 11 there's safeties in it. Believe me, if there was 12 some kind of bird that flew up here once a year 13 from South America and the EPA knew it and it 14 flew in front of my radar and got hurt, they 15 wouldn't allow it. This thing is safe. It's put 16 up in urban areas where you have a concentration. 17 They're on buildings in Chicago, New York, 18 Philadelphia. If it was harmful, these things 19 wouldn't exist. Every airport has them. Every 20 metropolitan area I know has these things. It's 21 absolutely harmless. 22 MR. WILLIAMS: So it wouldn't cause 23 me to become sterile? 24 MR. ATKIN: No. If it would, I 25 would have stood in front of one of those years 12 1 ago. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: It's the same thing 3 as Channel 7? 4 MR. SEITER: Is it the same height? 5 MR. ATKIN: I can't answer that. I 6 do not know. 7 MR. SEITER: 60 feet is not real 8 tall. 9 MR. ATKIN: 60, 70 feet, that's what 10 most of them are going to be at. 11 MR. SEITER: Do you know where they 12 live in relation to their house? Where is this 13 tower going to be compared to their house and 14 existing towers? 15 MR. WILLIAMS: If this is 16 conditionally just for the doppler radar, is 17 there any possibility of anybody else putting 18 anything else on the tower? 19 MR. ATKIN: No. No. I can assure 20 you there will be nothing else on this tower. 21 MS. SMITH: And nothing else on the 22 land? I mean, nothing by anybody else? 23 MR. ATKIN: No. We own that land. 24 We control it a hundred percent. I want to be 25 good neighbors. I wouldn't put nothing up unless 13 1 we told you anyway. I don't want you to see 2 something go up out there and be afraid of it, 3 not knowing what we're going to do. We're trying 4 to serve the public. 5 MR. WILLIAMS: Observing from your 6 past record, that is correct, I must say. 7 MR. ATKIN: We want great relations. 8 We're in the business of wanting you to like us. 9 The last thing I want to do is offend anybody. 10 MR. WILLIAMS: We didn't know what 11 it was. 12 MR. ATKIN: I understand. If 13 somebody came in my neighborhood and said they're 14 going to put up an X thing, wait a minute. 15 MR. SEITER: There's a fixed dome. 16 It's just like Channel 7 and there's a dish in 17 there that rotates. All you're going to see is 18 the tower and fixed dome. 19 MR. ATKIN: And it will be behind 20 the trees and stuff. 21 MR. SEITER: You have any other 22 questions then? 23 MR. WILLIAMS: Is there going to be 24 another building structure? 25 MR. ATKIN: Eight by ten, another 14 1 shed. Where our entrance road goes in, it will 2 be from the right of that. From where you live 3 you won't even see it. If you really looked you 4 could. 5 MR. WILLIAMS: Actually, sitting 6 between the old existing building and the new 7 structure. 8 MS. SMITH: Frytown or -- 9 MR. ATKIN: Frytown. It also will 10 have a security fence around it with barbed wire 11 on the top. 12 MR. SEITER: This is the information 13 we had from last month so this is the -- this 14 might help. 15 MR. ATKIN: We have it listed 16 here -- I didn't think you would mind. We're 17 going to move it back this way because that way 18 it's less obtrusive to anybody. We're going to 19 move over here (indicating). 20 MR. SEITER: This is your residence, 21 is it, Mrs. Smith? 22 MS. SMITH: Yes. 23 MR. ATKIN: In the existing 24 scheme -- back here. So like I said, you 25 probably won't even see it unless you're looking 15 1 really hard for it. 2 MR. WILLIAMS: Is the gentleman here 3 on the front seat here going to be planning this 4 operation? 5 MR. ATKIN: Well, actually, what 6 we're -- we're all responsible for the safety of 7 it, make sure it's operating correctly; but 8 something like this, we like for the company that 9 makes it to actually service it, and they will be 10 out to service it on a yearly basis. But it's 11 got every safeguard you can think of. I used to 12 work on these things at another station and if it 13 goes down, it will shut down. If you open the 14 door and try to get in, it shuts down. 15 The government's got every known 16 safeguard built into these things. I mean, the 17 last thing they want is to have a federally 18 licensed device out there that could be of a 19 danger to anybody. They're responsible. They 20 license us. So, you know, every safeguard is 21 looked at. And I don't want to hurt anybody, 22 believe me. I mean, it's not worth it by any 23 means. So it's totally safe and -- I don't know. 24 That's about it. 25 MR. SEITER: You have any other 16 1 questions or concerns? If there's no other 2 questions or concerns, we do have a motion from 3 the board to approve the -- 4 MR. DICKERSON: Is everybody 5 satisfied? 6 MR. WILLIAMS: I was concerned what 7 this was -- what was going on. We've seen 8 towers -- many towers out there have been built 9 in the past. So if this is only a 70 foot tower 10 and it's a doppler radar tower basically set up 11 for our safety -- it's interesting to be able to 12 be aware of storm patterns that are coming in 13 from any station. It doesn't make no difference 14 who's actually doing it. We've seen that in the 15 past. It's going to be a benefit to the 16 community. 17 MR. ZEALER: This will give us an 18 advantage of seeing weather patterns updated more 19 quickly. 20 MR. ATKIN: Like I said, I really 21 don't want to go into the specifics of it. I 22 think you're going to really like it. It's stuff 23 that Indianapolis or Columbus would have, we're 24 getting here. 25 MS. BRADLEY: Okay. 17 1 MR. SEITER: Did we have a second on 2 that? 3 MS. BRADLEY: Mr. Seiter? 4 MR. SEITER: Yes. 5 MS. BRADLEY: Mr. Dickerson? 6 MR. DICKERSON: Yes. 7 MS. BRADLEY: Motion carried. 8 MR. SEITER: When will you start 9 construction on that? 10 MR. ATKIN: Well, I've got to get a 11 construction permit on that. I guess it will be 12 tomorrow. This is the first step. I 13 know -- just to answer your question as honestly 14 as I can, I met with the contractor today. It 15 will probably be this week. It will be a 16 miracle. Most likely we would like to start next 17 week. 18 MR. SEITER: How long does it take 19 to put something like that up? 20 MR. ATKIN: Probably three weeks to 21 a month. 22 MR. SEITER: Is that right? 23 MR. ATKIN: Yes. 24 MR. SEITER: Thank you. 25 MR. ATKIN: Thank you very much. 18 1 Appreciate your time. 2 MR. SEITER: The other case we have 3 before the board is the split of land on 4 Farmersville-West Carrollton. Is that applicant 5 here? 6 MR. PARSONS: Uh-huh. 7 MR. SEITER: Would you state your 8 name and address for the record? 9 MR. PARSONS: My name is Cliff 10 Parsons. I'm the owner of 8030 11 Farmersville-West Carrollton, and we'd like to 12 split over a 20 foot section and sell that to our 13 neighbors. 14 MS. BRADLEY: Would you give me your 15 last name, please? 16 MR. PARSONS: Parsons, 17 P A R S O N S. 18 MS. BRADLEY: Thank you. 19 MR. SEITER: What's the -- what's 20 the frontage? So you're taking -- 21 MR. PARSONS: It's 221. 22 MR. SEITER: Okay. What's the -- 23 you're taking 20 feet off? 24 MR. PARSONS: Right. 25 MR. SEITER: What's the frontage of 19 1 the existing one, Mr. Coon, that you're going to 2 add to? 3 MR. COON: Yeah. Let me find that 4 here. Got it here some place. I guess I do not 5 know. A hundred feet. 6 MR. SEITER: A hundred feet on 7 Farmersville-West Carrollton? 8 MR. PARSONS: On 7990. Is that what 9 you're asking about or 8030? 10 MR. SEITER: Yeah. 7990. 11 MR. PARSONS: Yes. 12 MR. SEITER: Okay. And then so you 13 still got -- so you'll still have -- 14 MR. PARSONS: Still have 201 foot 15 frontage as I understand it. Jefferson Township 16 has a 200 foot minimum on the frontage for 17 property. That will make the lot about a 1.5 -- 18 a little over 1.5 acres. 19 MR. SEITER: Okay. There is -- I 20 think you're okay because the one clause in there 21 requires 400 foot of depth. You're living there 22 now; right? 23 MR. PARSONS: That is correct. 24 MR. SEITER: Where is this on -- 25 MR. PARSONS: We're about a mile 20 1 west of Route 4. 2 MR. SEITER: Are you near the maze? 3 MR. PARSONS: Yes. 4 MR. SEITER: You're just north of 5 there then? 6 MR. PARSONS: We're just east of 7 there, the corn maze. You go up and turn right 8 on Germantown-Liberty. 9 MR. SEITER: Okay. You don't 10 have -- you got some structures out here but -- 11 MR. PARSONS: Right. There's a 12 shed. 13 MR. SEITER: You don't have septic 14 and there's no other concerns in there? Are 15 there any easements in this area? 16 MR. PARSONS: Nothing on that side 17 of the property. The septic is all on the west 18 side of the property, the septic tank. 19 MR. SEITER: There's no utilities, 20 easements or anything like that running through 21 that? 22 MR. PARSONS: No. We put a new 23 septic system in two and a half years ago and the 24 utilities were checked at that point. 25 MR. SEITER: Any other questions? 21 1 MS. BRADLEY: No. 2 MR. DICKERSON: I can't think of 3 anything. 4 MR. SEITER: Can we get a motion? 5 MS. BRADLEY: I'll move that we 6 approve the -- 7 MR. SEITER: I'll second that. 8 MS. BRADLEY: Mr. Seiter? 9 MR. SEITER: Yes. 10 MS. BRADLEY: Mr. Dickerson? 11 MR. DICKERSON: Yes. 12 MS. BRADLEY: I vote yes. 13 MR. SEITER: I'm going to move that 14 we add one contingency that this doesn't show up 15 as a separate parcel that this was deeded -- 16 MR. PARSONS: Oh, yeah. 17 MR. SEITER: -- to -- 18 MR. PARSONS: It needs to be added 19 to -- 20 MR. SEITER: In other words, you 21 still have two lots there, two legal descriptions 22 and not one that it would be deeded to there. 23 Did we get a second on that? 24 MR. DICKERSON: I second. 25 MS. BRADLEY: Mr. Seiter? 22 1 MR. SEITER: Yes. 2 MS. BRADLEY: Mr. Dickerson? 3 MR. DICKERSON: Yes. 4 MR. SEITER: That was your intent 5 anyhow, wasn't it? 6 MR. PARSONS: Yes, sir. 7 MR. SEITER: Okay. Thank you. 8 MR. PARSONS: Thank you. 9 MR. SEITER: Motion to adjourn. 10 MS. BRADLEY: Moved. 11 MR. SEITER: Meeting's adjourned. 12 Thank you. 13 (Thereupon, the hearing was 14 concluded at 8:00 o'clock p.m.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 1 STATE OF OHIO ) 2 COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY ) SS: CERTIFICATE 3 I, Stacey L. Kimmel, a Notary Public 4 within and for the State of Ohio, duly 5 commissioned and qualified, 6 DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the above-named 7 hearing was reduced to writing by me 8 stenographically in the presence of the parties 9 and thereafter reduced to typewriting. 10 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a 11 relative or Attorney of either party nor in any 12 manner interested in the event of this action. 13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 14 my hand and seal of office at Dayton, Ohio, on 15 this _ _ _ day of _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, 2003. 16 17 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ STACEY L. KIMMEL 18 NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF OHIO My commission expires 6-11-2006 19 20 21 22 23 24 25